Saturday, October 17, 2015

How Many Coincidences Does It Take?

Although this post is about bias against the Bible, it is not about questions.  Instead this is an attempt to debunk the Bible altogether, so I've decided to respond to it under a title outside of my series called, "Answers To A Few Biased Bible Questions."

I posted the meme below on my wall on Facebook.  The comments that are numbered are from someone (Chrystal, a Facebook user) attempting to debunk the claims in the meme (which is a defense for the scientific reliability of the Bible).  My replies (preceded by a "》") are an attempt to give a reasonable answer to each one (see the original discussion here). 

**Disclaimer: I am not the creator of the following meme that is in the line of debunking.

1. Isaiah 4:20[sic] the circle of the earth. Circles are flat.
》 Isa 40:22 WEB (Unless otherwise noted, all scripture quotes will be in World English Bible, mouseover verse reference for NASB.) "It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in;"

Yes, circles are flat. Let's look at the Hebrew word used here in this context though: [ḥūḡ - ח֣וּג] According to the word should be translated: "super sphaeram", Pagninus; "globum", Montanus Vatablus; "super orbem telluris", Vitringa.

As you can see here there are three key words in this definition:
Sphaeram (sphere)
Globum (globe)
Orbem (orb)
I think it's safe to say that the word, "sphere" isn't out of context.
2. Jeremiah 33:22 The host of heaven (God) can not be numbered, does not even say the word stars. 
》 Jer 33:22 "As the army of the sky can’t be counted, and the sand of the sea can’t be measured; so I will multiply the offspring of David my servant and the Levites who minister to me.'"

I have a more literal translation, and I'm guessing you were reading from the NKJV (New King James Version) because I've searched through several others and that is the only one I found that said, "host" in it.  Nonetheless, even in our English vocabulary today a definition for host is, "a vast multitude" which would make sense since obviously God cannot be numbered and in comparison to, "sand of the sea" stars fits better; not to mention that every other translation/version says, "stars."
3. Job 28:25 to make the weight for the winds (not air). Wind is not air. Other planets have wind, but not air. God would know the difference. 
》 Job 28:25
*BBE* "When he made a weight for the wind, measuring out the waters;"
*EasyEnglish* "He decided the power of the wind. And he decided the size of the seas."
*ISV* “He imparted weight to the wind; he regulated water by his measurement."
*KJV* "To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure."
*NET* "When he made the force of the wind and measured the waters with a gauge."
*NHEB* "He establishes the force of the wind. Yes, he measures out the waters by measure."
*WEB* "He establishes the force of the wind. Yes, he measures out the waters by measure."

Admittedly this doesn't say air.  However, what is wind without air? You argued that on some other planets there is wind but no air.  I've done some research since you've stated this.  Some other planets like Mars do have air that is unlike the air here on earth, and others like Neptune that have wind caused by gas.  There are others that have no atmosphere because they're too hot like Mercury.  There's no wind on Mercury, or any other planet without an atmosphere.

Back to the original statement from Job 28:25 about wind --on earth-- having weight: What is wind without air?
4. Job 38:19 Implies that he is looking for light or asking where the light is. That means he is moving not the light. Verse 20 doesn't even use the word light.
》 1Co 15:41 "There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory."

Admittedly again this verse doesn't say what is implied in the meme.  I think the right verse should've been:

Psa 147:4 "He counts the number of the stars. He calls them all by their names."

But I wasn't the maker of this meme.
5. Job 26:7 Does not use the word float or space. And hangeth the earth upon nothing, It's not nothing it's the sun's gravity.
》 Job 26:7 "He stretches out the north over empty space, and hangs the earth on nothing."

Let's be real, Chrystal.  We both know what is implied here.  Does the earth hang on anything?  And because of the Sun's gravitational pull, does the earth not float?
6. Ecclesiastes 1:6 Says the wind blows north and south, does not use the word cyclone.
》 Ecc 1:6 "The wind goes toward the south, and turns around to the north. It turns around continually as it goes, and the wind returns again to its courses."

Again, implications; it doesn't just say that the wind blows, "North and south" it says that it, "... turns around continually as it goes, and the wind returns again to its courses."  As opposed to the wind just blowing straight.  This verse implies that the wind is constantly moving and in different directions.
7. 2 Samuel 22:16 says nothing about valleys or mountains or the ocean floor. Says simply that it's the foundation.
》 2 Sam 22:16 "Then the channels of the sea appeared. The foundations of the world were laid bare by Yahweh’s rebuke, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils."

Yeah, I'm with you on this one Chrystal.  Doesn't mean necessarily that this is incorrect, but, like yourself, I just don't see it either.  (Editor's comment: perhaps the intended reference was Genesis 7:11 referencing "... the fountains of the great deep.")
8. Jonah 2:6 Says nothing about water or oceans. He is simply standing at the foot of a mountain looking up at it.
》 Jon 2:6 "I went down to the bottoms of the mountains. The earth barred me in forever: yet have you brought up my life from the pit, Yahweh my God."

Again I would have to agree with you.
9. Leviticus 17:11 Says the blood is for atonement of the soul, says nothing about health.
》 Lev 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood. I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement by reason of the life."

Yes, the passage of scripture does say life is in the blood; however I do not see where it says anything about health also.
10. Hebrews 11:3 doesn't say anything of the kind. In fact I think it says the opposite. Things which are seen are NOT made of things which do appear. NOT made of things which do appear. If it appears that means it WAS invisible.
》 Heb 11:3 "By faith, we understand that the universe has been framed by the word of God, so that what is seen has not been made out of things which are visible."

You might have confused yourself there, not to be rude but this is what it says:

So that
What is seen
Has not
Been made
Out of
Things which are

In other words: The things that you can see, they're made out of invisible things.
11. Job 38:16 Ok I'll give you that one. But you need only walk on the earth to see that. It doesn't take god. And may I point out that scientists were very ignorant back then because religion controled everthing [sic]? Do not bear false witness.
》 Job 38:16 “Have you entered into the springs of the sea? Or have you walked in the recesses of the deep?"

You'll only give me one?

No one person knew of these things because deep sea diving didn't exist so when God said this it was pure revelation.

How do you know that science was controlled by religion?  Maybe science relied on religion a lot, but controlled?  No.  Atheists, and free thinking philosophers existed then too.  Maybe not so much in the Hebrew culture, but elsewhere in various other world cultures as well.
I respect your determination for truth, and even I learned something from this.  I hope that others can also take from this to be honest, and do research because honestly I didn't even look up these scriptures before I posted the meme on Facebook.

Thank you Chrystal.

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